I brewed the extract kit. This was my first lager, though I've been brewing ales for about 9-10 years. I've always liked Bock, but the commercial ones I've tried in the last few years were too hoppy for my taste. I followed the directions closely. I used 3 packets of dry yeast, one of Saflager W-34/70 Bohemian Lager Yeast, and two of Saflager S-23 Lager Yeast. There was no particular reason to use two types of yeast, its just what I could buy locally Fermented in a chest freezer equipped with a cheap, Chinese temperature controller, with the heat cycle via a germination mat, and the cooling via the freezer. Primary fermentation was for 25 days and 50°F. Transferred to a secondary fermenter, and fermented at 42-46°F for 27 days, Increased the temperature to 58°F for 4 days, then dropped the temperature to 42°F for three days before kegging. Lagered at 35-36°F for about 6 weeks before kegging and sampling. It was great--a gentle sweetness with a nice malty flavor, and no ethanol overtones. Just what I was hoping for. I hoarded this batch for about 6 months, slowly drawing down the keg. It just kept getting better until the end. I'm about to brew this again, but it will be hard to wait for it to mature fully, and it probably won't last that long.